Tag Archives: Taxes

Question from reader: Why Shouldn’t Higher Education be Provided by the Taxpayers?

 

Q:I can’t help but notice that you didn’t actually give a reason why higher education shouldn’t be provided for in the same manner as high school level education, you simply stated that at this point it’s not (which is true, but not germane to the point that an educated public is valuable enough to merit taxation to pay for higher education for all).

Sure, I’ll try to address that a little better. The primary reason it shouldn’t be provided by society (taxpayers) in its current form is partially what I already described- the dramatic system changes it would require and the reduced access to most for a higher tax cost to everyone. Some would say, well expand it all the way and don’t reduce access to contain costs. That’s what’s happening in Medicare and Medicaid and we see how well that’s working for the national budget. There is also no economic argument for everyone in the society having a college education, as we do not need bachelor’s degree holders running assembly lines, cleaning offices, etc. but it is also a matter of pure fiscal responsibility. The biggest reason people go to college is to get a better job and make more money over their lifetime. Plain and simple. If you can afford to go for recreational purposes or pure interest purposes, more power to you, but there’s no justifiable reason the society should pay for you to learn about your fields of interest in a formal setting just because you want to, and I don’t know of anywhere in the world that is really done. Either access is greatly limited to only the best students who are then given that option, or much more career focused overall. Nowhere I can find pays for anyone who wants to go to college to go, which is basically what people have been suggesting on here the past couple days. That said, since the biggest reason people go to college is to get a better job, a college education is an investment. It is not a strict necessity to make a living, do well, etc. It’s required for some fields of course (and probably in several it doesn’t need to be), but society does not view it as a requirement to live a decent life, as we do a high school education. Since it is an investment, the student and their family should plan ahead financially, decide how much to invest, and make sure it will pay off. If it’s no longer a fiscally responsible investment for the individual to go to college, there’s no real reason the society should want to invest in it for you either knowing you aren’t willing to.

All people really want is to have the debt and risk of debt removed from them so they can attend college without worrying about these things, but that simply can’t happen in the US system where access is wide open and options are so varied. There’s also no logical reason that the government should take on the risk of investing in your education and future productivity if you’re not willing to do so. That’s where this capitalist vs. socialist/communist argument is going to keep coming up… If you want to have a better job, obtain a higher level of knowledge that will enhance your success in life, etc. then why shouldn’t you be willing to invest in it yourself and take on the risk? So you can no longer afford the ivy league school or private liberal arts school you wanted because they raised tuition? Go somewhere you can afford that still offers a solid education. You don’t ask the government to buy you a nicer house than you’re willing to buy with your own money, or can afford because the housing prices went up, do you? (Okay, some people basically did in the past, but we saw how that turned out haha!) I wouldn’t be taking on about $200,000 in student loan debt for medical school if it was an impossible investment, and I would never ask the government to do that for me either. If students are smart about where they go to school cost wise, the career fields they consider, and work as hard as possible to find ways to reduce the cost of their education, then they should be comfortable taking on the debt or financial responsibility for their own future.

Hope that helps give some insight into my viewpoint.

-M

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Why Can’t Education Be Free? Because It Isn’t.

There’s a lot of Tumblr-noise going on today about the cost of education and whether or not it should be free. I’m not going to argue that the cost of higher education shouldn’t be lower, I think it is growing at an unsustainable rate driven by a variety of forces, but it should be pretty obvious to anyone with basic financial skills why higher education can’t, and in the US system shouldn’t, be free. 

To state the obvious (channeling a little tautology here): Things that cost money cost money. Almost nothing in life, other than perhaps air, is free to provide and as such it’s illogical to say it should be free to use. Things have to be paid for by someone, and the capitalist/US system has long said that people that enjoy the benefits of something should pay to enjoy those benefits. That’s the inherent fairness of capitalism and also its weakness from the socialist/communist viewpoints.

Education is expensive to provide, and getting more expensive. There are ways those costs could be limited and even come down, but people suggesting education should be free are suggesting the government, the same entity already running trillion dollar plus deficits, can somehow take over higher education and provide it at no additional cost to the taxpayers. If that were to happen, access will have to be more limited (the taxpayers/government aren’t going to be as willing to let people go to college just because they want to or study things that have no economic benefit to the society), options will have to be more homogeneous (after all, where’s the fairness in sending student X to a fancy liberal arts school and student Y to a second tier public school if their families paid similar taxes into the system?), and the result of the first two requirements will mean less campuses and fewer students overall. For examples of how “free”, or greatly reduced cost, systems work a look at Germany’s education system would be very enlightening: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany
 . Although Germany’s system seems to works well for them and in several ways is the direction the US is silently heading in (the formation of career academies, etc. to replace traditional high schools is an example of this), the access to higher education is much more limited there than it is here largely because the German system demands higher standards overall to get into colleges and their whole education system is far more career focused. The system in the US would have to be totally and completely overhauled for anything like that to work here, and whether you think that’s a good or bad thing, it’s very unlikely and I don’t believe for a second people would be willing to take on a substantial tax increase to support a government run system that may turn them away. 

Whether you’re willing to admit it or not, education as a whole is a business. It provides people with the knowledge and skills not to improve their overall level of enlightenment, but to make more money and contribute more productivity to society. As such, it is an investment on behalf of whoever (whether that be the student or the government) is paying for the education with the understanding that it will result in increased income/productivity from the student in the long run. The government and the states have decided that completion of a high school education is so valuable to the country and the states that it is worth having society pay for through taxes. It has decided that higher education, particularly to low-income students or students studying certain fields, is worth subsidizing. What it has not decided is that the current system, where anyone can go and study whatever they want, is worthy of paying for through taxes all together, and I don’t see why they should. 

As always, your input, comments, etc. are welcome.

-M

Original posts:

somepolitics:

brosephstalin:

giantsteps360:

This is a naive notion. Granted, I don’t like America’s ubiquitous military presence in the world. We spend far too much money on it and our overreach tends to bite us in the ass in the absolute worst ways (one need look no further than September 11, 2001). However, yes, it is very naive to think that we

1) Shouldn’t drop bombs on nations who are absolute aggressors and dangers to the public at large

2) That education should be free. 

Education shouldn’t be free, absolutely not. Not now, not ever, never ever ever should education be free. Never.

brosephstalin:

thalamtnafsee:

This is literally mind boggling: 

For the 2009–10 academic year, annual prices for undergraduate tuition, room, and board were estimated to be $12,804 at public institutions and $32,184 at private institutions.

Between 1999–2000 and 2009–10, prices for undergraduate tuition, room, and board at public institutions rose 37 percent, and prices at private institutions rose 25 percent, after adjustment for inflation.

[take a look at the chart here

In 2012, student debt because of loans will reach $1 Trillion, surpassing credit card debt as the largest group of debt. Private lenders (like Sallie Mae which holds the most loans, five times more than the second largest lender, Wells Fargo) are unregulated in their practices, resulting in things like charging fees to prove you’re unemployed and having abhorrent interest rates, even as high as 10% and beyond. 

The Student Labor Action Project and United States Student Association are beginning a campaign to help alleviate this one symptom in our failed education system. It is not the end-all of the education crisis, but it is a start, and an urgent one since student debt very well might be the next bubble to burst (one can’t discharge their student debt when declaring bankruptcy) 

Sign the petition here

Fight for not only no debt for students, but for a future with free education for all!

Define aggressive, since we are often the ones to shoot first, or our previous policies of imperialism make it so if we were in their situation, we’d probably want to attack us too. 

And I don’t see why it shouldn’t be free. It is not a business, it is an institution that betters the lives of anyone willing to put in the effort to study and put in the time to gain knowledge to make them a better person and so they can live a better life, it is not so companies can exploit people wanting to make their lives better.

God, giantsteps360 is really taking shit today.

With good reason.

Why shouldn’t education be free? Just answer that. Tell me your opinion. Please. I’m genuinely curious to know.

Source: desmonsters

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Who’s Really Not Paying Their “Fair Share”?

If I had to pick one thing that has been annoying me most about our President’s speeches recently, it would have to be his use of classist rhetoric to blame our government’s economic failings on the wealthy in our country. Last night’s State of the Union, to no one’s surprise, included his tagline complaint that some aren’t “paying their fair share”. Although on the surface it should be obvious that there is no logical reason to believe this anti-rich rhetoric, it hasn’t stopped a lot of people from doing exactly that, so I decided to look into it a little more depth. In all reality, all of President Obama’s anti-”rich” tax speech can be boiled down to two questions.

1- Who are the “rich” in our society? and 2- Do they pay their “fair share”?

1- The first question has had a few different answers over the past few years, but the only answer that matters right now is what the president thinks “rich” means. President Obama has been calling for a tax increase on all families making over $250,000 a year and an even more significant increase on people earning over $1,000,000 a year. The president has said this would leave taxes the same for 99% of families. Unfortunately, that’s just false. $250,000 a year may sound like a lot to you or me, but it doesn’t put you in the top 1% of taxpayers. It takes an annual income of $380,354 to be one of top top 1% (or $343,927 depending on the recent year of IRS stats you use). It used to be quite a bit higher before the recession hit hard, in 2007 it was $424,413, but it has been on the decline while the economy suffers. So here’s my first big issue with the President’s rhetoric: It’s founded on one blatant lie and one implied one. The first is that it will only affect the top 1% of taxpayers, which as you can see is just not true. Are these people still in the highest brackets of income? Yes, but the impact of the tax increases will not be not near as isolated as the President tries to make it sound. The second, more subtle, lie is that the “rich” have not been affected by the tough times our country is going through and therefore can afford to pay more taxes while the rest of us are suffering. That’s also clearly false, as is evidenced by the drastic decline in the amount of earnings it takes to be in the top 1%. There’s also the underlying concern I have with saying that anyone that makes more than $250,000 a year is rich. You and I all know people, probably a lot of them, that make more than that and most of them don’t qualify as rich in my book. They don’t own private planes, drive Lamborghinis, or have a vacation house on the beach. Depending on where you live, $250,000 a year might not even cover a nicer than average house. The $250,000+ a year is a category that a lot of your friends may fall into. Many small business owners, attorneys, physicians, realtors, and other professionals may be in this income category. These people make a good living, but they’re not isolated from the effects of a bad economy and they still have to go to work to make ends meet. They’re not sitting around counting their money or living purely off investments, they put years into building their businesses and practices to make a good living and presumably work hard for their money. More importantly is that these are the people that hire the rest of us. They invest in their businesses and by doing so allow many of us to earn a paycheck. If we increase their taxes, do you honestly believe that is going to help create more jobs? Even if we only increased the taxes on the “wealthy” that make millions a year and are job creators on a much larger scale, the logic still stands: Business owners don’t hire more people when you take more of their money away each year. Since many people agree that the most important part of getting our economy back on track is getting people back to work, why are we suddenly attacking these people as not paying their fair share?

2- Is it because there is some truth to the President’s claim that they aren’t paying their fair share? He has been quite willing to have Warren Buffett, one the wealthiest men in the world, use the media as a way to promote the “rich should pay more” message and build resentment against the “rich” that disagree with his view. If Mr. Buffett thinks the rich should pay more taxes those that say they already pay their fair share are just being greedy, right? Surely one of the wealthiest men in the U.S. wouldn’t be offering to pay more taxes if there wasn’t some system in place favoring the “rich” Obama is rallying against, correct? Wrong. Warren Buffett is the third richest man in the world with a net worth of $50 billion dollars. In 2010, he made nearly $63 million in income. He has said in the past his effective tax rate is around 19% and that he should pay more taxes. His lower tax rate, much like Mitt Romney’s, is because his income doesn’t come from a paycheck each year like most Americans, or even most of those earnign over $250,000 a year, but from investments. This is the first critical point that people need to understand- increasing income taxes won’t affect Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, or even Mitt Romney much at all, it will just hurt those that rely on paychecks to make a living. So why is President Obama using Warren Buffett to justify increases in income taxes? Well… I don’t know of any reason that doesn’t assume we’re idiots or have purely political motives. But even if the tax increases were going to affect him, Warren Buffett has as little in common with someone earning $250,000 a year as a person earning $250,000 a year does with a homeless person. His annual income is 252 times that of what President Obama is classifying as rich. To put that in context, the family earning $250,000 a year makes five times the average household income of $50,221. Who do you think they feel closest to on the income scale- Mr. Buffett or the average family? To answer this “are they paying their fair share” question though we need to use some real numbers, not fight rhetoric with rhetoric, so here goes… In 2009, the top 50% of Americans, those earning over $32,396 a year paid 97.75% of ALL taxes. The top 10%, (>$112,124) paid 70.47% of all taxes. The top 5% (>$154,643) paid 58.66% of all taxes, and the top 1% (>$343,927) paid 36.73% of ALL taxes. So if you earned between $32,396 and $112,124, you make up 40% of Americans that pay 27% of all taxes. If you made less, you make up 50% of all Americans that pay 2.25% of all taxes. For the graph lovers among us, here’s a pie chart: Total Taxes Paid by Income

So there you have it, a total breakdown of who pays the bulk of the taxes under current laws. The top 1% of people pay 37% of all our country’s taxes, and the top 5% pay nearly 60% of all the taxes each year. But is what they’re paying “fair”? That’s a much more difficult question that has no objective answer, so I’ll turn to historical data to give us a better idea of what these people have paid over time.  Below is a chart showing the effective household tax rates for the past 30 years:

Houshold Effective Tax Rates

As you can see, the highest earners have seen a mild drop in total taxes when compared to 1979 numbers, but they have not enjoyed as much of a drop in effective tax rates as any of the other quintiles over the past 30 years. Yet they’re the ones being targeted. If anything, the nearly half of Americans who pay no net income taxes should look up the definition of the word “fair” in the dictionary before complaining about how much the rich pay. The highest earners pay the highest effective tax rates among American families and pay over half of all our country’s tax income. So what gives?

If the President wants to increase taxes on the rich (a mistake, in my opinion), he shouldn’t be doing it on the premise that they’re not paying their fair share or are somehow eluding paying their taxes- the numbers clearly show they pay more taxes than the rest of us combined and have the highest effective tax rates. He also shouldn’t be using billionaires who don’t pay any significant amount of income taxes to justify raising taxes on those that do rely on a paycheck for a living. Investment income and paycheck income aren’t taxed the same (the theory has always been that we like to encourage people to invest their money, not punish them), so why are Mr. Buffett and President Obama pushing these proposed increases on the working “rich” who pay income taxes using investment income as the example? If someone as unimportant as me can demonstrate his premise to be wrong, then imagine what his political opponents can do. Call it what it is- a “we’re broke so we’re going to punish the people that make the most money to pay for our lack of budget skills” tax increase. The use of anti-rich rhetoric and playing off the sympathies for the Occupy Wall Street movement is nothing more than an attempt to incite class warfare in an election year and the Obama campaign team knows it. The populist tone has been a theme of the campaign from day one, but at least it was based on happy, if somewhat empty, ideas like “hope” and “change”. Now that they need someone to blame for the mess they and their predecessors have gotten our country into, they’ve decided to pick up their pitchforks and torches and go after the so-called rich under the illusion that it’s somehow partly their fault because they’re not paying enough right now. If the President thinks punishing the people that generally hire the rest of us and stimulate the economy is the best way to pay for our country’s irresponsible amount of debt, so be it, but let’s not pretend it’s because they’re not paying their fair share.

-Matt

All tax data used in this post comes from the Internal Revenue Service. If you’d like to look at some of the data yourself, the IRS and the Tax Policy Center are good resources.

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Filed under 2012 Election, Barack Obama, Economy, Politics